Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Turtle Bites

(photo found in google image search, photographer unknown)

While I’m working on making the next post in my series on The Map of Relationships intelligible, I thought I’d share a couple Al Turtle quotes.

Just some food for thought. (And a bit of a glimpse into the future of this series of posts.)

Some of Al’s definitions:

Bully (original version)-- A person who wants their way and when they don’t get their way, they make other people unhappy.

Bully (Al’s new version)-- A person who wants their vision of reality, their interpretation of reality, to be the only surviving interpretation of reality, and they want other people to not talk about disagreeing.

Leader-- A true leader is a person who does not allow anyone to be disrespected in his or her presence. Also, a person who maintains dialogical space when not making a decision.

Dialogical-- sharing points of view peacefully.

Dialogue-- 1) Any sentence that implies the existence of multiple points of view of reality. 2) A conversation in which both are comfortably sharing their differing ways of seeing and appreciating the world.

MasterTalk (the opposite of Dialogue)-- Any sentence that implies there is a single correct way of seeing reality. “It is warm.”

Some of Al’s One-Liners:

All people make sense all the time.

If two people are agreeing, at least one of them is lying.

All people are chronically disobedient… learn to live with it.

Falling in love is an invitation to the brilliance of being fully alive.

Divorce that old relationship. Don't divorce your partner.

You can either be "right" or in "relationship". Take your pick.

Your stuff is never my fault. And I care about you. So how can I help you with your stuff?

What is madness but nobility of soul at odds with circumstance.

I just love the way this guy thinks! I hope you are finding his ideas just as thought-provoking as I do.

I’ll be back very soon with the next post in the series….


JaneyV said...

I spent a long time last weekend reading Al's website - specifically his explanation of the Relationship Map and how to be one of the 4% who graduate from the University of Life into Vintage Love.

If I was to choose a door I'd say that my husband and I chose door 1 a very long time ago but we're still in the UoL with lots left to learn. But I absolutely believe in the Biological Dream and everything about my (almost 18 year) relationship supports that belief. Strangely, I find the fact that there's more to learn comforting. It assures me that the adventure continues and that boredom won't undermine it.

Aine said...

Janey~ I have no doubt that you will continue to find adventure-- you have such a great attitude!

Afetr reading most of Al's site (it's huuuuge, isn't it?!), I'm still curious if it's possible to go through door 1, but later slip back into the power struggle stage. I think that happened with Jason and I. :P But we're solidly enrolled in the UoL now. :)

Yeah... and I have a ton to learn...!

SzélsőFa said...

i don't seem to understand these two notions:

*If two people are agreeing, at least one of them is lying.*

*You can either be "right" or in "relationship". Take your pick.*

I mean I know all the words, and get two complete sentences with two meanings.
my problem is that Al Turtle couldn't have said those. those are so untrue.
so I must be missing something.
please, help :))

Aine said...

Szelsofa~ Al exaggerates a bit when he writes these "one-liners". He does it to grab your attention. But he does explain the truth or meaning of the sentence. :)

The first (if two people are agreeing...) refers to the fact that at some level there is always divergence in two people's thoughts. Because no two people experience the exact same reality. Our brains perceive reality differently. His point is to help people understand that we need to respect each other's points of view. He also uses it when teaching about how during the romantic phase of a relationship we tend to think that our partner is just like us. Here's a quote from his site:

"Agreement: Another trait that we can point to is Agreement. Romantic Lovers put a high priority on Agreement. They speak of agreeing on almost everything as though disagreeing is somehow a bad thing. They talk of having the same values, same experiences, his/her towels, past-lives, etc. They are soul-mates. If I hear a couple saying, “We agree on most everything.” I know they are in Romantic Love.

Nothing could be so different as how Vintage Lovers handle agreement. Vintage Lovers actually avoid agreement and don’t trust it.

Here is what that first Vintage Lover couple I interviewed said to the question of “How do you deal with agreement?” The woman said, ever so properly, “Mr. Turtle. We believe that it is impossible for two people to agree on anything.” Then the man, after he stopped chuckling at the question, said, “Yup, yup. If two people are agreeing, you know one thing for sure. At least one of ‘em is lying.” That was the first time I had heard the real version of “agree to disagree.”

Vintage Lovers seem to value data very highly, and thus don’t like agreement. They believe that at some level of depth everyone sees things differently and this difference is important data to them.

Romantic Lovers seem to value agreement very highly and thus don’t get much data. They seem to prefer “shallow agreement.”

And so we can say that along the path between Romantic Love and Vintage Love, people must give up the need to agree and replace it with a love for differences.

About the second sentence (you can either be right or in relationship...), Al uses that one-liner to teach people that there is no "right" way because both partners see reality differently. Everyone's view needs to be respected in vintage love, rather than the hierarchical relationship that many couples live in (with one partner as the leader or in control).

SzélsőFa said...

first statement (agreement vs. data)
I understand that seeking 'shallow agreement' for the sake of agreement, for the false sake of 'sameness' is wrong on the long term. if this is what Al Turtle wanted to express, I agree.
see the irony?

second statement: (be right or in a relationship)
i see. Al was referring to authoricism, which may easily lead one person gainig power over the other. which is completely disbalanced - yet there might be some people who like such relationships.

it is strange that AT grabs our attention by these one liners. if you dig deep into them, if you read the explanation behind, if there is at least one kind person to teach you their real meaning (wink, wink) then you accept them as clever thoughts.
but without this extra explanations, these one liners tend to repel me, rather than attract me, into his otherwise valuable system of thoughts.
thank you for helping me, Aine !

Aniket Thakkar said...

The last three specially got through me. And loved the explanation you gave for them too.

Once I've gone through all your posts, I guess, I'll be an expert in theory of relationships with no practical knowledge. :)

Erratic Thoughts said...

I liked the way you have put in your explanation..

Al's theories are great, now that I am actually reading them...Till date I had heard a lot about it...

Thanx for these Snippets, some of them are real eye openers...:)

Anonymous said...

I preferred Al's description of a bully as someone who uses a lot of mastertalk