tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post2903862485245769960..comments2023-04-26T09:33:52.787-04:00Comments on Life is Beautiful: Connections (the first in a series about relationship...)Ainehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08402176500997528105noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-12191016188654683542008-11-13T21:24:00.000-05:002008-11-13T21:24:00.000-05:00Kaye~ Absolutely! Respect is vital. It is certain...<B>Kaye~</B> Absolutely! Respect is vital. It is certainly an element of any healthy relationship. And yes, respecting another does breed tolerance and acceptance of differences which goes a long way towards maintaining harmony.<BR/>:)<BR/><BR/><B>Chris~</B> Marriages can take a beating from growing children (amazing how much havoc those little tykes can wreak)! And yes, we all (hopefully) continue growing, so that alone means we need to continually reassess/reaffirm our relationships. I'm tickled that my post could help give you and your hubby a boost! Please keep me posted!<BR/>:)Ainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08402176500997528105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-36938499888699464742008-11-13T19:41:00.000-05:002008-11-13T19:41:00.000-05:00{smiley hugs} I feel at home here with the INFJs!I...{smiley hugs} I feel at home here with the INFJs!<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed reading this post. I think that my marriage needs a bit of a boost in the definition department. Now that kids are older, DH is traveling, and heck, I'm evolving I think.... I may read this post to DH. Will keep you posted...<BR/>:-)Chris Eldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794946908789120139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-60874126497621635092008-11-13T19:35:00.000-05:002008-11-13T19:35:00.000-05:00You wrote - "So, a relationship can only be known ...You wrote - "So, a relationship can only be known with certainty when there is change."<BR/><BR/>That is one profound statement, Aine! I found many deep and thought provoking ideas in this post. (In all of your posts)<BR/><BR/>I believe that respect is one of the most important elements in maintaining a solid relationship. If you respect one another, other matters that need to be managed in a connection, sort of take care of themselves.(if that makes any sense)<BR/><BR/>I know relationships are not that simple. They do need a lot of care and work! :)K.Lawson Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11204234196229710524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-65857921099475988212008-11-13T17:55:00.000-05:002008-11-13T17:55:00.000-05:00Vesper~ I'm so glad that I've given you something ...<B>Vesper~</B> I'm so glad that I've given you something new to ponder! That is one of my favorite reasons for communication: to share a new perspective or idea.<BR/>:)<BR/><BR/><B>Precie~</B> :D Yes- a world full of INFJs would be poorly run (all off dreaming of possibilities but overlooking logistics)-- we do need grounding! I just looked up what infj.com says-- she adds Eleanor Roosevelt and Katharine Briggs (of Myers-Briggs!), but believes Ghandi was INFP. It is interesting to hear the arguments for typing people from history. <BR/><BR/>As I have found (and many of the books say), you cannot accurately type someone else. Only they can know what their preferred cognitive functions are (though we can make educated guesses!) One issue that clouds how a person appears is that they may have strengthened non-preferred functions as a result of upbringing (positive or negative reinforcement from parents for behaviors that strengthen other preferences). Another issue with introverting types is that their dominant function is not seen by others. It is their secondary function which is extroverted and which others see, so I'd imagine mistakes could be made if one guessed the introvert's dominant function wrongly.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for all the discussion!!<BR/>:)<BR/><BR/><B>Jason~</B> Thanks for such a well thought out "rational" (ha!) explanation! <BR/><BR/>You are right that give and take are the two elements necessary for relationship. It is "how" relationship works. And, that true giving must take the form of what the receiver wants from their perspective, not what the giver thinks the receiver would want or what the giver would want for themself. <BR/><BR/>Using your language, I can see more clearly that a relationship would be defined by the amount and quality of giving and receiving. Both parties must agree, for example, if the amount and quality of giving/receiving constitutes a "love" relationship vs. friendship vs. acquaintance (and any level in between). That definition is still established by the parties involved based on their values and desires. An outsider cannot define that relationship (even though they may be able to describe the quantity and quality of giving and receiving).<BR/><BR/>Great discussion! Thanks!<BR/>:)Ainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08402176500997528105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-60659375394312224352008-11-13T11:10:00.000-05:002008-11-13T11:10:00.000-05:00I think this is going to be a great series and can...I think this is going to be a great series and can't wait to see where it leads!!<BR/><BR/>Being an INTP, I am a systems builder, one who always strives to understand the world as one, interconnected, fundamental organism. Toward that end, I think that the concept of relationship can be distilled to a basic concept. A basic balance between two interrelated drives.<BR/><BR/>To understand the basic nature of it, we have to look a little closer at the human animal. We are hard-wired, biologically, for community. When we are isolated, we feel lonely. When we are together, energy builds. We understand the value of community life (support, pooling labor, better ideas, etc.). But we also understand the threat of community life (misunderstanding, conflict, ostracism, etc.). Relationship is the quintessential community. The community of two.<BR/><BR/>So what is the basic balance? Two elements, both of which are essential for success.<BR/><BR/>#1 Selflessness or Help Given. Love from this direction is the kind of love that provides, reduces burdens, helps, uplifts another person. It is other-minded, in the sense that one is giving value, work, and sacrifice. This element is the pleasure of effort.<BR/><BR/>#2 Protection or Help Received. This kind of received love is the sense of being understood, valued, protected, helped, and uplifted. It is me-minded. It is want-oriented. This element is the pleasure of having someone dedicated to your happiness, even if it means work and sacrifice from that person.<BR/><BR/>This give-and-take balance is delicate. And any failure of a relationship, and resulting tension, can be traced to a failure in one or both of these community drives. For example, #1 <I>must</I> be completely other-minded. If you give love with passion and dedication, but it's a vision of love that <I>you</I> want (probably in the hope that the other person will get the hint and return the same thing), it fails. The lack of true dedication to your Selflessness or Help Given translates into a frustration of the other person's me-mindedness (#2). That person, in frustration, may reciprocate by withholding his/her own gift (#1), beginning a spiral.<BR/><BR/>True relationship cannot be selfless. Sometimes that's what we're told. Love is giving no matter what. However, it is not hard-wired into humans to always give and not receive. Inevitably, we will be poisoned by frustration. And keep in mind that love too heavy in #1 can certainly be a failure of the giver. The giver might be far more comfortable giving than asking for something in return. Therefore, <I>both</I> people play a role in ensuring that both elements are healthy in each direction.<BR/><BR/>Think about relationships you've been in that have gone awry. Can you trace it to a problem in the balance of these elements?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-12326009091860111092008-11-13T09:29:00.000-05:002008-11-13T09:29:00.000-05:00It has been such a joy to meet you as a fellow INF...<I>It has been such a joy to meet you as a fellow INFJ!</I><BR/><BR/>Feeling's mutual. :)Preciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071233480999640713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-32575720992060178722008-11-13T09:26:00.000-05:002008-11-13T09:26:00.000-05:00Ghandi as an INFJ would not surprise me. :) Ooh, ...Ghandi as an INFJ would not surprise me. :) Ooh, and I just found a site that asserts Nelson Mandela, MLK, Mother Theresa, and Florence Nightingale were all INFJs too. I can totally see that. :) Good thing there are lots of other types to help keep us grounded.Preciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071233480999640713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-17415023271397588182008-11-13T07:52:00.000-05:002008-11-13T07:52:00.000-05:00But everything else-- what the relationship means,...<I>But everything else-- what the relationship means, how it is protected, the priority or significance that it is given-- are all illusion, created by each individual.</I><BR/>Aine, I haven't given much thought to this but now that I'm reading it here I realise it's something I've always felt.<BR/>What an interesting post you have - much to think about here!Vesperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12417602625059442986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-76298186159252520832008-11-12T18:04:00.000-05:002008-11-12T18:04:00.000-05:00Charles~ Ah, yes. Disconnections are a fascinatin...<B>Charles~</B> Ah, yes. Disconnections are a fascinating topic. We probably learn more about ourselves from our experiences with disconnect than with successful relationships. I look forward to reading such a post.<BR/><BR/><B>Precie~</B> Yes! INFJ's unite! We certainly aim to. Ha!<BR/><BR/>Holistic and tolerant are probably top words in an INFJ's vocabulary. I never questioned where my way of thinking came from, probably because I was too busy noticing that no one in my family was like me. But, like you, I did hang a lot on my protestant upbringing. Interestingly, I found that my perspectives didn't change when I turned atheist. It has been such a joy to meet you as a fellow INFJ!<BR/>:)<BR/><BR/><B>Janey~</B> You said it so well! Thank you! I'm so glad you had such insights before marrying. I wish there was a mandatory class in high school about relationship. Maybe more young people would enter marriage with a better chance at success.<BR/><BR/><B>Sarah~</B> Thanks! I like your visual of islands. Yes, understanding another's structure gives us knowledge on which to base our expectations. It protects us from disappointment or unease. I'm glad to finally understand that bridges can be rebuilt, and that creating that connection together using blueprints from each person, can result in strong connections. <BR/>:)<BR/><BR/><B>Precie~</B> You know, Ghandi is rumored to have been an INFJ.... It is daunting to build connections across cultural and language divides. But the future orientation of Idealists usually results in optomism. It can be done. Yes we can!<BR/>;)Ainehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08402176500997528105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-49133137787878716452008-11-12T14:28:00.000-05:002008-11-12T14:28:00.000-05:00Meant to mention earlier...the INFJ might also exp...Meant to mention earlier...the INFJ might also explain why I'm a registered Democrat. :)<BR/><BR/>When you apply the same perspectives to a socio-political world view, it becomes...daunting. Important but daunting.Preciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071233480999640713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-88994624142785903602008-11-12T13:53:00.000-05:002008-11-12T13:53:00.000-05:00Wow, great post, Aine! You raise a lot of importan...Wow, great post, Aine! You raise a lot of important questions about subjectivity and the mismatch and overlap that can occur between two visions. <BR/><BR/>Those connections should be protected. Equally, in effort, all around. We don't each have to establish the same definitions, but understanding others' structures is paramount to peace and security...and that longed-for harmony. When those bridges are in doubt, there are only islands. And then we're all adrift. <BR/><BR/>Here's to feeling those ripples, and finding their sources. :) <BR/><BR/>(Love the song and photo, too!! :))Sarah Hinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13888406261817690010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-2033976507395654772008-11-12T13:33:00.000-05:002008-11-12T13:33:00.000-05:00Another INFJ, another Catholic here and I always k...Another INFJ, another Catholic here and I always knew that my take on the world was intrinsic to me and if I had any illusions otherwise my six siblings were only too happy to point out how uniquely "Jane" my outlook was. I'm glad of it now though.<BR/><BR/>I think I was in my late teens and it was my first time in love when I realised the illusory nature of relationship connections and how two people can claim to feel the same thing be vary radically in how they define them. Then my next lesson was in how those connections change and need to be redefined as the relationship evolves. It's like a renegotiation of a contract to ensure that both parties are still happy with the terms. I'm glad that I had these insights before I met Hubby.<BR/><BR/>The most important thing is to never become complacent. Respecting each others right to evolve in a relationship is part of the deal.<BR/><BR/>As usual a wonderful and thought-provoking post Aine!JaneyVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04951739945670483199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-69906081768479327092008-11-12T11:37:00.000-05:002008-11-12T11:37:00.000-05:00INFJs unite! (Get it, unite? connect?) :)I suppose...INFJs unite! (Get it, unite? connect?) :)<BR/><BR/>I suppose it's then no surprise to you that one of my "pet" phrases was something hubby saw on a t-shirt in a catalog years ago:<BR/>"Mitakuye Oyasin" - a Lakota phrase that translates "We are all related."<BR/><BR/>Your explication of relationships here is fascinating, particularly how relationships exist in one's mind. Of course that helps explain various friends and their romantic upheavals. But, yes, relationships take on a life of their own, one that needs nurturing as it evolves.<BR/><BR/>Funny...I always thought my tendency to look at the world holistically, so to speak, was a function of growing up Catholic. Now I see it's much more intrinsic for me.Preciehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071233480999640713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9072625157925960817.post-66583443297572760142008-11-12T11:24:00.000-05:002008-11-12T11:24:00.000-05:00Interesting post. I hadn't thought of it in just ...Interesting post. I hadn't thought of it in just that way. Got me thinking about a post on "disconnections," and how those could be important to us as well.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.com